Dave Hilfman is Senior Vice President of Worldwide Sales for United Airlines. In his position, Hilfman directs a team of more than 800 sales professionals for United around the world. Prior to his new post at United, Dave served as Senior Vice President of Worldwide Sales for Continental Airlines from 2004-2010. Dave first went to work in sales for Continental in the late 80s in Los Angeles. Prior to his tenure at Continental, Dave worked at Eastern Airlines, first as a campus rep, and then as an account executive. Dave holds a B.A. in Finance from the University of South Florida. He has one son, Marshall, age 8.

Last fall Dave Hilfman received the news he had dreamed about for years. He had been given the responsibility to head up the global sales team for a newly merged international airline that would possess, arguably, the best global network on the planet.

For someone whose airline pedigree extends back to when he worked as a campus sales rep for Eastern Airlines, through the ugly early days at Continental, and then through that airline's impressive run from "worst to first" – particularly in the area of corporate sales – there couldn't have been a more exciting piece of news.

Named the SVP of Global Sales for United Airlines, having formerly been SVP Worldwide Sales at Continental Airlines, where he had led an award-winning global sales team for many years, Dave had every right to feel as though he had won the lottery.

"I can't tell you how excited I was when Jeff and Bill Compton gave me the news. I'd be lying if I said I had, we had, not thought, dreamed, for many years how great it would be if we could combine the networks of the two airlines. The potential in doing so just seemed unbelievable," Dave told me last week.

August of last year, he got his wish.

But just a few months later, the love of his life, the mother of his one young son, and a woman who had bravely fought for more than four years, lost her battle with breast cancer.

On October 14, Tracey Hilfman passed away, after the cancer she thought she had beaten two years earlier returned with a vengeance.

On October 15, the newly named SVP of Global Sales for United Airlines not only had a massive corporate merger and integration process in front of him, he had no place to live in Chicago, he had a seven-year old son in Houston who had just lost his Mom, and Dave had just lost his wife, best friend, and strongest supporter.

"Kinda puts things in perspective, that's for sure," Dave commented last week, as we slithered into our Lounge Lizard seats.

PBB: So let's talk about how you got started in this wacky industry. According to your official bio, you began working for Eastern Airlines in 1981 as a college sales representative at the University of South Florida. I have to admit, I have mental images of "Miami Vice"  here….with Mr. Joe College, Mr. Frat boy, Dave Hilfman living large, on the beach, selling special airline deals with Eastern Airlines. Am I wrong?

Dave Hilfman: <laughs> You are not wrong. I was living large at the University of South Florida. And in fact at the time I got the call about Eastern, I was the president of the interfraternity council.

PBB: That does not surprise me.

Dave Hilfman: Yeah, I got a call from the Eastern Airlines district sales manager who somehow got my number and he asked me if I had any recommendations for someone for a campus representative position, because he knew I had a fairly large network of people that I knew. So, I told him yes, I had some people I knew who might be interested, but could he and I talk about this? Not to be selfish or anything, but the more he talked, the more the position sounded like something I would like.

PBB: Had you been interested in the airline business before this to any extent?

Dave Hilfman: I'd always had a fascination with the airline business. I mean, I grew up in Washington, Iowa. So, you know, from time to time I got to leave the state -- on Ozark Airlines -- and I always thought it was so cool.

PBB: That you got to escape from Washington, Iowa.

Dave Hilfman: Exactly. I mean I always thought it was so cool going to the Cedar Rapids, Iowa airport and venturing off around the country....not that I got to do it that often, but everytime I got to do it, I liked it. It just seemed like a cool business, jets were neat and just the thought of travel and freedom were pretty good for an Iowa kid.

PBB: I didn't know you grew up in Iowa. How did you get from Iowa to the University of South Florida?

Dave Hilfman: Good question. Actually, my folks were brilliant. You know, the weather can be a bit harsh in the state of Iowa.

PBB: Just a tad.

Dave Hilfman: Yes, well, actually I've now come to realize that this is applicable to the state of Illinois as well, thanks to my arrival at the new United headquarters.

Dave Hilfman: So, anyway, my parents purchased a home in Port Charlotte, Florida, which is on the west side of the state, just south of Tampa. Upon driving that route from Iowa one time, we happened to pass through Tampa, and I saw what appeared to be this spectacular university campus and I thought, "Boy, isn't that a great looking university?" I remember, I think I was 16 or 17, 16 maybe, and I remember asking my parents, "Hey, you know, this looks like a pretty nice university, and well, since you have this house down here, and well, the weather would be much more moderate and, temperate, and well ....it would certainly help my golf game. I just thought it would be a pretty cool place to be. Unlike Iowa.

PBB: I take it your family has some Hawkeyes in it.

Dave Hilfman: Oh, the whole family. Both my parents, my two brothers and my sister. They all went to the University of Iowa. So needless to say, the possibility of me doing this represented a big change in my family. But my father was supportive of the idea, and in 1979 when I was a senior in high school, I went back down there, I applied, and was accepted. They had a great business school there and I really just think it was a good place for me to be.

PBB: Sounds like you really liked it there.

Dave Hilfman: I really did. It was a good school. And hey, no question it certainly was much more accomodating to my social agenda.

PBB: I would think so.

Dave Hilfman: <laughs>

Dave Hilfman: So, back to the Eastern Airlines thing. That job was essentially to get kids, aspiring young graduating professionals, anybody matriculating through there, signed up in the Eastern frequent traveler plan. You know, get them signed on early before they ventured out into the world. Try to build that loyalty. Also, I went out and solicited the various organizations and groups on campus, you know the Scuba Club, the Ski Club, any various and sundry outfit, and tried to convince them to use Eastern for their group travel. Tried to increase the airline's revenues a little.

Finally, I also got to do promotions on campus -- all of which were geared to increasing their [Eastern's] visibility.

PBB: From there, how long was it before you went to work for Continental?

Dave Hilfman: I did my Eastern Airlines rep gig from '81 until I graduated in '83, and then I went to work full time for Eastern in '84 as an account executive in the Atlanta office.

PBB: Was that a normal progression for a part-time campus sales rep?

Dave Hilfman: No. They never promised you full-time employment. Frankly, it was pretty rare that they would hire kind of "off the street" for the sales organization at all. Normally, they tended to pull from other areas within the airline, like reservations. But thankfully I had been fortunate to have had a number of encounters at various meetings with the VP of Sales while I was the campus rep -- John Nelson was his name -- and he gave me a shot at a full-time job. I remember I interviewed in Boston, New York, San Francisco, and Atlanta. But, as you know, because of Eastern's route network at the time, the Atlanta office was, other than Miami, a big deal. It was a big hub for the airline.

PBB: Sounds like somebody was impressed by Joe College.

Dave Hilfman: An incredible guy by the name of Ken Stowe -- he was kind of a legend in Atlanta -- was the district sales manager in Atlanta and I think he saw this young snot-nosed college kid who was pretty confident he could sell in the big town...and thankfully, he gave me a shot.

Although, here's a great story, Holly. I remember going to the interview, and at the end of the interview, Ken looked at me and said, "Where do you buy your clothes?"

PBB: Was this a compliment or not?

Dave Hilfman: Ah...no. Jeez. But at that moment, I didn't know. I didn't know what to say. So I said, well, I got these down in Tampa...then I mumbled something about how my father owned a clothing store in Iowa. So then he looks at me and says, "Well you know kid, you really dress like shit."

PBB: What in the world did you have on?

Dave Hilfman: Well I had on a blazer and some kind of a knit tie and well, I didn't have on my one favorite suit. I can't remember if it was because the suit I had at the time was in bad shape, or I hadn't been back to Iowa to get a new one from my Dad, or what the deal was. But thankfully, he was clearly amused by what he saw. I didn't look so bad that he wasn't willing to hire me, but he was clearly appalled by that blazer and that knit tie.

PBB: So you were hired "with conditions"?

Dave Hilfman: Exactly. He said, "Son, if I hire you, you are going to have to get some new suits." I said, "Sir, I think I can make that happen." A couple of days later, I got the phone call. He said that while it was a bit unusual for them to hire outside the company, he was going to give me a shot. I am forever grateful to Ken Stowe and John Nelson for giving me that opportunity.

PBB: So now you were a full-time sales rep for Eastern Airlines. And now I know why you are always so impeccably dressed.

Dave Hilfman: Yep. So I started working for Eastern in Atlanta in 1984, and was in Atlanta for about a year. Then they moved me to Mobile, Alabama. [Spoken with a pseudo-Southern drawl].

PBB: Good grief. Mobile? Talk about culture shock.

Dave Hilfman: I loved it. They were wonderful to me. I think it was one of the best gigs I ever had. I really love that city. They welcomed me with open arms. Needless to say, there weren't too many Jewish kids from Iowa in the airline business down there, so ...it was pretty cool.

PBB: How long were you there?

Dave Hilfman: I was there about 8 months. Then I got a promotion and they moved me to Raleigh-Durham North Carolina and I did that for about 8 months. Then Texas Air, which of course owned Continental, bought Eastern. They formed a joint company called Continental-Eastern Sales. Do you remember that at all?

PBB: No, that was before I was involved in this wacky industry.

Dave Hilfman: Well, it was called CESI. A joint venture of Continental and Eastern Airlines. I ended up moving to Jacksonville. There I watched over a sales area that included North Florida, the Carolinas, and southern Georgia. So we had just one sales force selling both airlines.

PBB: Question. At that time, when you talk about sales, you were doing very little of what we would regard as "corporate sales" now, right? Essentially you were selling the airline to travel agencies.

Dave Hilfman: Right. Actually, at that time it was rare that an airline would be in contact with a corporate account directly. The vast majority of that business was funneled through our friends who owned the travel agencies. The agencies would do all the work on their behalf. Corporations really didn't even want to talk to an airline directly. If we did make any calls on a corporation, it was usually just a promotional type of thing where we'd drop off pins, pens, pads, drink passes, guest passes to the Ionosphere. All you could really do was bring stuff and say, "Hey, great to see you."

[Editor's Note: The Ionosphere was Eastern's equivalent of American's Admiral's Club, or United's Red Carpet Club.]

PBB: This was the heyday of the airline "travel poster."

Dave Hilfman: Right. There was no negotiating of corporate contracts or anything like that, except with the very largest clients -- it was pretty much promotion oriented. More of an attempt to get visibility for your company.

PBB: Sounds like a lot of fun.

Dave Hilfman: It was. And then...I was off to New York City, as they moved the headquarters of the joint sales organization there. Then... at some point the decision was made to split the sales force back up to where each airline had their own staff. Frankly, I was looking at the situation with Eastern at the time, and I didn't like what I saw in regard to the airline and its labor challenges. Continental, on the other hand, seemed to be headed in a more promising direction. In addition, John Nelson, my old mentor of sorts, was moving over to Continental as the EVP of Sales and Marketing.

PBB: So you went with Continental.

Dave Hilfman: Not immediately. It wasn't my choice to make. I got picked to go back to Eastern. But the next day, literally the next day after I was told the news, Eastern went on strike.

PBB: Not good.

Dave Hilfman: No. I ended up out in the maintenance hangar at JFK, along with a number of my other sales colleagues, cleaning out airplanes and cleaning out the hangar.

PBB: This I would have liked to have seen.

Dave Hilfman: No, you wouldn't.

PBB: Let's backtrack a bit here, because we've glossed over a huge topic. What was it like for a kid who came from a relatively small town in Iowa, and who had spent most of his career in the South, to then take a job in New York City?

Dave Hilfman: Oh, it was hugely exciting. It was also daunting. But hugely exciting. Seriously, it really is like the song, if you can make it there, you can make it anywhere...and I was really excited about the chance to A) have a big staff so we could do some really creative and exciting things in one of the most hugely important travel markets, if not the most important in the world and B) to just have the chance to experience the 24/7 lifestyle of New York. I mean, could you ask for anything better? I was 28 and single and ready for action.

PBB: When I moved to New York in 1993 I felt the same way. Hugely excited with the possibilities, but nervous and apprehensive about whether or not I could "measure up" so to speak.

Dave Hilfman: Oh, yeah, I was a little nervous about it. I wasn't sure that at my age and my experience level if I would be accepted, but I was gratified to get there, and the people there welcomed me. But -- at the same time, they wanted to see how I was going to perform. They wanted to see if I had their backs and they wanted to make sure I didn't have this idea that I was going to come in and change everything. I didn't. I listened a lot and I tried to figure out how I could bring more value. I was anxious to learn what they did and how they did it. I mean, it is an incredibly difficult market. Once you can get in there and show them that you understand that there are unique challenges to the city and the region and you show them that you can be creative -- then you can start to make some headway. And we did make some headway there -- even in some very difficult times. Overall, it was one of the best times in my career.

PBB: Sounds not unlike how you probably approached going into your first meeting with the United Airlines corporate sales group.

Dave Hilfman: Ahh, well, yes. Pretty much.

PBB: Before we get there, let's get you out of New York and down to Houston. So, you don't really want to stay with Eastern after the sales teams are split up in New York, but have been told that is where you are going, and because of this you're now cleaning out airplanes in the Eastern hangar. In those nice suits you bought years before.

Dave Hilfman: <laughs> Yeah.

PBB: For some reason, I don't think this lasted very long. Even if it was New York.

Dave Hilfman: <laughs> No, it didn't. I indicated to the folks at Eastern that I loved the company and I was grateful to them for the opportunity they had given me originally, but if I was going to be hanging out mopping floors in the hangar, well, that really wasn't what my education or training had prepared me for, and if I couldn't see a bright future pretty quick, I would be looking elsewhere. And, it wasn't too long after that that I received a call from Continental. They wanted to know if I would be willing to head up their sales office in Southern California and Nevada.

PBB: I don't imagine that was a difficult decision to make.

Dave Hilfman: I told them I thought they could probably convince me that would be a good move. And before you knew it, I was westward bound.

PBB: I don't imagine they had to twist your arm too much.

Dave Hilfman: No. Beach. LA. Weather. Hadn't been able to play a lot of golf while I was in New York. It was apparent that all of this could work well in my future. Granted, I was leaving one extraordinary travel market -- but I was going to another. Just a little smaller. I was thrilled. No doubt about it. I thought Continental was headed in the right direction at that point, and hey, I thought it would be a great adventure. And it was.

PBB: Compared to New York, how did it stack up?

Dave Hilfman: You know....I think you have a little different style of business. People maybe approach their work a little differently. But it's still a lot of the same passion. Everybody wants to make money. Everybody wants the airlines to help them make money. A lot of folks are not necessarily that concerned if the airlines make money themselves.

As for the Continental folks in Los Angeles, they were a very proud bunch. LA had been the home of Continental for awhile before they moved to Houston, and it was interesting to be in the same building as [former Continental Airlines CEO] Bob Six had been. The sales group was housed in the building where the old headquarters had been. HR was there, there was a large pilot base there. Whole litany of things still in LA.

And hey, I finally had a car again!

PBB: Okay, so I have to ask. I have visions of palm trees and Dave driving some exotic automobile with the top down, enjoying the view.

Dave Hilfman: Very good! Yes, actually, I had the fabulous Mazda RX-7 convertible. Bright red. With a black convertible top. Oh,... I was somebody, baby.

PBB: I somehow knew you weren't out there tooling around in a Toyota Corolla.

Dave Hilfman: Oh no. It was a red Mazda convertible and I was having a field day. I was truly a legend in my own mind. It was a golden time for Dave to be in the Golden State.

PBB: <laughs> And then you had to move to Houston.

Dave: Well, actually I was in LA for four years. And really, I loved every minute of it. I thought the weather was extraordinary. I enjoyed the people I was working with. I enjoyed our clients out there, and hey, we really began to make some headway out there in rebuilding and reenergizing Continental. Heck, I even enjoyed the traffic. Yeah, I loved it. All of it.

PBB: Let's move from micro to macro for a minute, because 1989-1992 was an important time for airline "sales." Wasn't this about the same time that the "sales" function at an airline began to change?

Dave Hilfman: Yes. You're right. We were becoming far more analytical in the way we did business. Our ability to look forward in terms of our bookings was now possible. We were starting to better understand how we might actually better utilize sales incentives not necessarily on the agency side, but more on the corporate side. It was at this time that we began to realize that if we were to put in some corporate discounting, we might actually see some material gains, in terms of revenues and share. It was in the early stages, clearly, and it did start then.

I remember dealing with headquarters then as we began to change the way we looked at our corporate clients. Those clients slowly began to become our "mutual" clients with the travel agencies, and we began to call on them directly. We began to think in terms of marketing the network and the airline in a different way to the corporate customers.

So yeah, that was a very interesting time. More companies began to actually want to have a direct relationship with the airline. More so than had been the case in the past. There were some very progressive companies where this had been the case in the past, but that would have been the exception.

Now, years and years before, companies had engaged in some "direct" contact with airlines, but it was usually just tele-ticketing programs or things like that -- years and years before.

But yes, I think it would be fair to say that this is where the airlines first took steps to move more toward the type of corporate relationship you see today.

PBB: Wasn't this the same time that agencies began to get nervous as airlines began to push to remove standard agency fees?

Dave Hilfman: I see that becoming more of an issue in the mid-90s. Clearly that's where we began to look at the commission structures. That's when we really began to see the airlines question how much value they were getting for the monies being paid, did it make sense to continue with a flat percentage payment, which, historically, had been the case for probably decades -- that type of thing.

But yes, I think you could say that between questioning the value of the existing compensation agreements, and the question of just how close we wanted to get to our corporate buyers --how valuable a better understanding of who they were could be, without just relying on the agencies to tell us that --there was a major evaluation of how we were "selling" during this period of time. No question there was also a review of our cost structures. We began to look at where it made sense to provide incentives. Did it make sense just to have an "entitlement" to a certain commission level for instance? I mean, look at a $10,000 international round-trip ticket. Did it make sense that a travel agent would be compensated 15% of the total cost of that ticket? Was it worth that much? Clearly, there was, I think you could say, more focus on remuneration and compensation and what would be the best way to handle all of this going forward.

PBB: What were some of the biggest challenges you had to fight through on the airline side, as the "sales" function began to change?

Dave Hilfman: The question of where and how to incentivize or discount. As I said, as we began to consider alternatives from the flat-rate form of agent compensation, there had to be other alternatives. And of course, the easiest alternative for the agency and the corporate side was a point-of-purchase discount -- rather than incentives of some kind. Because the point of purchase discount model was easy to understand, easy to manage, and well, that is why both the corporate customer and the agencies liked it. But for the airlines, it was not the best alternative. Because we had no technology in place to tell us if, in fact, the corporate customers were indeed meeting their targets.

So in that case, the airlines began to realize, hey, we're taking all the risk. It was very difficult to get timely information from all of our accounts to accurately make sure the clients were meeting their performance goals or their share goals. Airlines had hundreds, or depending upon how big they were, thousands and thousands of accounts that we needed to evaluate, and well, it just wasn't getting done. Not effectively. So then in the late 90s, 98-99, we had the big change, when we began working with PRISM, which is a very robust solution to help the airlines better track all of this, and our agency customers helped us with the automation of that information.

PBB: But, given the comments I've heard expressed by at least one TheBeat Live Conference attendee, not all corporate clients are happy that you use this system to track corporate travel.

Dave Hilfman: You know, you would think that both sides in this situation would welcome more transparency. I mean, generally the sharing of information is a good thing. More transparency is a good thing. It's usually a good thing for decision making.

But people oftentimes, as we've found out, don't want to share information.

But to formulate good programs and have them work both for the airline and the companies, you need to be able to evaluate them effectively. So yes, that was the big change that occurred in the late 90s. That was a huge change.

PBB: It all sounds pretty simple now. Tie together marketing and sales efforts with financial performance. But at the time, this was a totally new concept.

Dave Hilfman: Although a smaller carrier at the time, we at Continental felt very strongly about this at the time. We were kind of on the bleeding edge of this. Frankly, when the CFO asked me exactly how much we were discounting, for example, I could only give him very general estimates and I never felt comfortable not giving him the numbers he really wanted, which needed to be far more detailed and in a much more timely fashion.

I remember thinking at the time that if we were going to be successful, and frankly, it would help our corporate partners as well, we had to have that information.

So as it turned out, we at Continental were kind of out front on all of this. We reached out and told our clients, hey, we kind of need you to help us manage this information, and we have a solution for you.

Former Pfizer travel buyer Phil Dunphy, Dave Hilfman and then -BCD Travel Americas president Danny Hood at the first-ever TheBeat Live Conference in Cleveland, 2008.

We will pay for it. We'll work with your travel management company.

PBB: But not all your corporate accounts were happy about this.

Dave Hilfman: No, not everyone jumped on board right away. That was a risk that we took on the client side. But you know, it was kind of like the risk that Delta Air Lines took on the commission front.

But most of our corporate clients signed on. We were hoping the industry would realize it was not a bad thing. And eventually, most of the rest of the major network carriers did join us to some extent. Not every airline uses the same program, but we still believe it's the only way to manage the risk.

While you still have some in the corporate community who are not too thrilled about it, I think most would agree it is a great way to measure performance. And hey, I don't think any company has been hurt by this, unless they weren't going to perform anyway. So that was going to happen anyway at some juncture.

We have also been able to tweak the program because we've had access to more realtime information.

PBB: You were the first airline to do this, correct?

Dave Hilfman: We were. Yes, we led the way on it. We thought if you had to take a risk with something in the market, it was the right thing to do. While you still have some people in the corporate community who would indicate they are not too thrilled with it, I think most would agree that it is a great way to measure performance. Yeah, I feel very proud that Continental was the trendsetter on this.

PBB: Probably 7-8 years ago, I was asked to visit with a consulting firm that was attempting to provide similar agency "firming" services to the airlines. It was not PRISM. It was a competitor. And I remember being amazed at how much money was being simply lost on both sides. Runs of just one market, using the top ten corporate clients, made the point very clearly that 1) the airlines didn't know if clients were meeting the terms of their contract or not and 2) corporate clients didn't have sufficient information either, which in some cases clearly was making it diffcult for the corporate client to get the best discount deal with a particular airline.

Dave Hilfman: You're exactly right. The fact is that airline systems have come so far on the operations side, the marketing side and sales side over the last ten years. We can clearly measure better. We can forecast better. We have an understanding of what kind of business is coming from where. It tells us where we need to focus more of our efforts. From the sales information side, it has helped us immeasurably how we forecast and how we manage our sales operations. It is telling us where we are getting a greater return on our investment. Absolutely. Over the last decade, it's been leaps and bounds in terms of the increase in the quality of information we are getting and that just makes everybody much smarter.

As long as we are sharing information, transparency is often very good, and it helps us do our jobs better, and I think the clients end up getting better programs as a result. That's my personal opinion.

PBB: I guess from an agency standpoint, they argue that what -- that all of this is too onerous?

Dave Hilfman: I think procurement managers are not that crazy about sharing information about what they may be buying. Even though they might say, "You need to beat 30%, that's what your competitor is giving." Look we don't always know what the other deals are. We may have a good guess. But we never know what all the terms and conditions are. I think it's just a concern that the airline is getting too much information.

PBB: But why is that a bad thing?

Dave Hilfman: It's not. If we are going to be more competitive, we -- we, the airlines -- need more information.

PBB: I'll be honest. I've always sat and listened to the discussions back and forth at TheBeat Conference and it always seemed to me that for years, the corporate side just had a little party. And there was no accountability. And then when Continental came in and tried to bring accountability to the process, which, as you say, benefits both sides, the other side then said, "Oh no, we don't want to do that." Or am I off base here?

Dave Hilfman: <pause> No. You captured that. That is the essence of the situation. You know, I can appreciate people who want to hold their cards close to the vest, but again, I think most all of our companies have benefited over time with this. I'm sure there could be some isolated cases, but I think overall the airlines have done a better job managing this to the benefit of their shareholders.

You can't be oblivious to competition in the market and it's still a brutally competitive business, and we just do a better job at managing this stuff -- and hey, if you have a company that likes to get all kinds of discounts from everybody and then the company just doesn't deliver on their contracts, those are the kinds of companies that generally are not happy campers. I can understand that.

If I was going to play that way, I'd not be happy about it either.

But for folks that have well-managed programs and show support for a limited set of preferred suppliers, they end up winning.

PBB: So I wasn't off base.

Dave Hilfman: No, you captured the essence and spirit of it to a "T".

PBB: I don't think there is any question that Continental Airlines has led the industry in terms of its corporate sales efforts. I know that when I have spoken to corporate travel groups over the last ten years, whenever I would ask which airline they preferred to do business with, Continental Airlines, with few exceptions, would get the most hands raised in the air. However, this brings me to my next question. As you are no doubt aware, when I would flip that question, and I would ask which airline the audience hated doing business with -- more times than not the overwhelming airline mentioned was United Airlines. So you have now walked into a situation where you have to not only make sure your Continental Airlines' customers don't perceive, much less experience, a "decline" in service, but at the same time, you have to raise the level of service to existing United clients.

Are there days when you just sit and say, "My god, where do I start?"

Dave Hilfman: <laughs> Certainly there are some days when just the path of "merger integration" is just....well, it's just extraordinarily daunting. Regardless of whether we're focused on the sales force or on various programs. Putting together two very proud long-time airlines is just extraordinarily difficult. It's a tough process.

PBB: What keeps you focused?

Dave Hilfman: Easy. Just knowing that the pot at the end of the rainbow is amazing, and could be highly profitable for everybody. You know, everybody wants to think they work for a winner, and the new United, once we get all of this put together, will have the most extraordinary network on the planet. There is nothing but upside and good times ahead.

But yes, I'm here to tell you it is a very tough, difficult process. We just take it day by day. I will tell you from the sales side, the biggest challenge has been, first and foremost, the opportunity to change perceptions that were in some cases unwarranted. Secondly, when we could see that negative perceptions were warranted, it was clear that we needed to come in and make a difference, and make it fast.

PBB: One of the more consistent problems with any merger is when the lead company drags its feet. Employees and clients then begin to question if the merger is going to be an improvement, or merely more of the same.

Dave Hilfman: Yes. You're exactly right. Look, my first and biggest committment to the sales force is this: that I am going to listen. We, me, the new United, we really are commited to getting the best of both worlds. That being said, if we really see one side has a really better approach, we are going to stop and think about it. We are not going to be shy about taking something from the United side and using it, if that is the better way to do things. Or, if the better way comes from the Continental side, then we'll use that one.

PBB: What was the first thing you told your sales people after the merger process began to roll out?

Dave Hilfman: The first thing we did was ask all the salespeople to think through and listen to all of their accounts. We asked them to listen, really listen to their accounts, and listen to both what they said we were doing well, and what both airlines were maybe not doing so well.

We literally took the approach of "Hey, let's just assume we are starting from scratch. How can we make all of this better for the client -- no matter what airline you used to work for?"

We got a lot of great input from both sales forces. And, this effort was done before we combined the two forces. All of this work has now been completed on the North American side, but we have not completed that task for the international side.

You know, when you tell your sales people to give you feedback like this, when you put it in terms of "starting over," you'd be surprised how that opens up things. We got great feedback when we did this. Then, we in sales management sat back and went through all the feedback we got. Things we could probably not do, things that were popular, things that were not popular. Things that worked. Things that were not working.

And then we started working on potential changes we could make.

One thing we made very clear -- if there was any question that we did not value the relationship between the client and the airline, that simply was not the case. And we began to systematically take those client relationships and figure out how we could improve upon them. For example, there were those clients who were only being talked to when it was time to renegotiate their contract for example. That's not acceptable.

I wanted to make sure that everybody knew that we put a tremendous value on our relationships with our key buyers and sellers. And if those relationships were seen as being too contractual or technical in nature, then that had to change. So we began to set that direction.

Notice that economics is really at the bottom of all this. I haven't talked about that side of it at all yet.

But you know what, Holly, people do business and they do more business with people they really like and trust and feel comfortable they will watch over them.

That is the approach we wanted to take with the new United, and I think we've made a lot of headway, but we have a very long way to go. So no, I'm not having any delusions of grandeur that we've achieved that. Far from it. But that is the direction we want to move towards.

I mean, when you think of all our corporate travel accounts all over the world -- it's going to take awhile.

PBB: Just a confirmation of what you are talking about. Late last fall I spoke to a select group of corporate travel professionals out in LA, and one person there waxed poetic about how he had just had a "wonderfully helpful" meeting with his United sales rep. As he put it, "Something has definitely changed." I think he said the last time he had talked to his United sales person had been, as you mentioned, the last time his contract had been up for renewal. Bad.

But back to your comment about taking the best of both airlines, the best example of what you are talking about was typified, I thought, by the airline's announcement that it was sticking with Economy Plus.

I found this news very telling because when I was in Houston in June of last year to talk to the Continental Corporate Advisory Board, I don't think the CAL execs could have made it any clearer that they did not think much of Economy Plus. There was definitely some "We are the Superior Beings" attitude on this subject. So when I saw the news that you were keeping Economy Plus, that told me that you guys had obviously had your attitude, er, adjusted -- after you'd had a chance to look at the numbers.

I saw this as a positive move.

Dave Hilfman: Yes. The old "We know what we're doing. That will never work" attitude. <laughs> Hey, we were pretty suspect upfront. I think Jeff even made a few public comments about it. We just couldn't imagine how that was going to work. But like you said, after you look at the numbers, and you get in under the tent and look at the economics and look at the upside -- much less the feedback we've now processed from buyers and end users -- hey, it's a popular product. What's not to like? You get the complimentary upgrades if you are an Elite flyer, you can purchase an upgrade if you are not, and hey, everybody wants more legroom.

We certainly listened to the corporate advisory board as well. And as you probably know, we went ahead under Cyndi Hunter's watchful eye, and have launched the new United Corporate Advisory Board. We have a number of folks who were on the Continental side on the new board, but we also brought in a number of strong United Airlines clients as well.

We had our first meeting about a month and a half ago. In fact, we clearly need to get you back up to another one, because I'd like you to see what we saw. This first one was pretty neat to see. The looks on some faces. I think some of the folks on the United side were pleasantly surprised by what they saw and heard. We did make a few presentations, but essentially we just shut up and listened.

So yeah, I'm really proud about that, because I think if you listen, you're probably doing better than if you are talking all the time, contrary to what I am doing now.

Fact is, on the corporate side, we've already received some pats on the back. But, like I say, right now we're happy to just sit and listen. And if there is something we can do -- even if it looks like it might help just only marginally economically-- we want to try and do those things if we think they will, long-term, help engender more customer loyalty and long-term business. Hey, we'll take a look at it.

PBB: Sounds like this was more like a "meet and greet" this-is-how-we-do-business reach out -- rather than the normal board meeting like the one I attended.

Dave Hilfman: Probably. We wanted to let them know that a) you are important and b) we want to listen to you, we are extremely interested in what you have to tell us. What do we need to keep? What do you like? What are we doing right? Wrong?

One thing is for sure. Just like the old Continental group, this is not a shy group. So no doubt we'll hear from them, and loudly if we don't listen carefully to their advice. I'm very proud of the group internally that makes sure this group is in place and makes sure its work is done. Consistency is very important with this group of clients. All good stuff.

PBB: There is no other airline that does this, correct?

Dave Hilfman: I don't know of any other airline that does this to this extent. I think we've been doing this for more than a decade. It's serious business. People have to sign NDAs, we have attendance requirements, they can't serve indefinitely, and yes, I don't think any other airline does this.

PBB: You do know that Wall Street analysts have in the past grilled your execs on the airline's earnings calls, asking them for feedback from the corporate advisory board. The perception clearly is that your group has the best feel for what is going on out there on the corporate side.

Dave Hilfman: And we are very cognizant of that.

PBB: Needless to say, I am all for a business that actively seeks out honest and open feedback. I know I wrote about how impressed I was with what I saw when I attended the Advisory Board meeting in Houston last year. But for those who might not have read that particular issue, I want to say again how impressed I was that the airline does this. I'm all for seeking out open feedback from your customers. And when you mentioned about how you didn't do much, but you listened a lot in the first "new United" meeting a month and a half ago -- I have to tell readers that what I saw in Houston was not rah-rah, "Aren't we great?" stuff. It was not that at all. You guys really were there to listen. Not sugar coat. Not fawn.

I guess that would be obvious, since you asked me to talk to the group.

Furthermore, it's clear that by doing this, it gives the corporate sales function within the airline much more clout. You are, in effect, providing the airline with extremely valuable client feedback. And at a relatively low cost. At the same time, you are building loyalty with those clients.

Dave Hilfman: Yep. It's a very important part of our sales effort and one that we're quite proud of.

PBB: Okay, so let's shift gears a bit. Going back to your career timeline, we left you in Los Angeles a few pages back. When did you leave Los Angeles and move to Houston?

Dave Hilfman: I was Director of the Western Sales Division in Los Angeles and was promoted to Sr. Director of U.S. Field Sales in Houston. I moved to Houston in 1992.

PBB: So taking a bigger picture view again -- your arrival in Houston dovetailed pretty nicely with the whole "Worst to First" period of time. While we are all well versed on Gordon Bethune's tenure as CEO of the airline, and how he led Continental to become one of the best run airlines in the U.S., what's the one thing we don't know about Gordon Bethune that we should know?

Dave Hilfman: <laughs> What's the one thing....Tell them that even though he was an operations guy by training and clearly a PR genius, he really was the greatest airline sales person on the planet. No question.

Gordon would go out with any account if he thought it could bring more money in the door. And he told me not to be shy about asking him to do so.

And, furthermore, Larry Kellner and Jeff Smisek have followed in that tradition as they both also were (are) willing to do the same thing,

Remember now, Larry was a finance guy and Jeffrey trained as an attorney.

PBB: So what you are saying is that for both Larry and Jeff, going on a sales call is a bit of a stretch.

Dave Hilfman: You said that. But well, let's just say they are not natural "sales" guys. But again, any time I needed Larry, he was there. Same thing with Jeff. But I tell you, I never knew that Gordon was as good of a sales guy until I saw him at work at many conventions, and numerous corporate sales calls. He said, "Whatever it takes to get some money in, I am willing to do, come do some butt kissin'."

PBB: And that comment is probably cleaned up considerably. Which reminds me, given Gordon's reputation, did you ever have to go back out and apologize for something Gordon said to a client?

Dave Hilfman: No, I never had to with Gordon. I did with a couple of other sales guys I had at one time, but no, never with Gordon. I had a couple of pricing guys I had to go clean up after one time, but that is another story.

PBB: So when money was involved, Gordon behaved himself.

Dave Hilfman: Yes he did. Look, having lived through it, there is no question. During the turnaround at Continental, Gordon was amazing. When I get out amongst the Continental folks today, they still ask about him. Want to know what he's doing. They still ask about [former CEO] Larry [Kellner] too. He is loved just as much as Gordon was by the Continental employees -- but in a quieter, different way.

PBB: Speaking of Larry, how is Larry. He is one of my favorite people on the planet.

Dave Hilfman: He's one of my favorite people on the planet as well. How is Larry? You know, I think he probably misses the hustle and bustle and the unique challenges of the airline business. You know he used to go 120 miles an hour all the time. He's busy today...it's just kind of a different busy.

He looks great. I just saw him a couple of months ago. I think he's doing some very select real estate deals and you know, he's got four great kids and an incredible wife, and he finally has a chance to spend some quality 24/7 time with them.

You know, Holly, I think you pick up on the same qualities with Larry that I do. He's such a genuine guy. He's an all-star. I miss hearing his thoughts and his ideas. But I'm glad he's getting to do what he's getting to do -- when he wants to.

PBB: It's interesting how some CEOs retain that love and respect from the employees -- long after they are gone. We just saw that revisited with Herb and the situation over at Southwest -- as the airline celebrated its 40th anniversary.

Dave Hilfman: Oh, yeah, right. They will forever love Herb, right?

PBB: And he stepped down as CEO 10 years ago. Stepped away as Chairman a few years ago. Doesn't seem to make a difference.

Dave Hilfman: Does Herb still smoke like a chimney?

PBB: Not sure. Think so. Still drinking his Wild Turkey too.

Dave Hilfman: Well, he's 80. Why not?

Dave Hilfman: And what about Crandall?

PBB: I think he's smoking again. He wasn't when I worked with him, but I think he's back at it.

Dave Hilfman: Did they have kids? Jan and Bob? I'm just thinking...here I am, I just turned 50. And I have an eight-year old. I got started late. Well, actually I didn't just turn 50, I turned 50 in December.

PBB: Ah...you're a Sagittarius. What day?

Dave Hilfman: Head of a man, body of a horse. You know it. Dec. 16.

PBB: That's why we get along so well.

Dave Hilfman: Are you a Dec. 16 baby?

PBB: No, December 4th. Me and Walt Disney.

Dave Hilfman: You and Walt -- that is beautiful.

PBB: That is where your love of travel comes from. Your independent streak.

Dave Hilfman: So if I had been a Leo, I would have been a banker, or some shit like that?

PBB: No, if you had been a Leo, you would have been an anchorman. Leos have big egos.

Dave Hilfman: That's funny. What would I be if I was a finance guy?

PBB: Probably a Capricorn. No, you're not a Capricorn.

Dave Hilfman: I can see I need to get updated here on all that important stuff. Those horoscope issues.

PBB: Yes. Definitely. Speaking of important stuff... time to switch gears here again. Now that you've mentioned your son, I think we need to talk about a whole 'nother overlay to what has been going on in your life over the last year.

It hasn't all been about mergers and sales calls and moving from Houston to Chicago.

I originally asked you to do this interview last October. But then the merger with United was finalized the first week of October. That part I shared with subscribers at the time. But secondly, on a more personal front, approximately two weeks later, you lost your wife to cancer. It is one thing to go through a merger of a global airline. But it is something else entirely to go through this process, against that kind of emotional backdrop. I don't know how else to ask this, so I'm simply going to ask, how in the hell have you done it?

Dave Hilfman: Well, <pause> it's been an extraordinarily difficult last, let's say, 12 month period. Like you say, any time you are dealing with a merger, and especially when you've been with the company for 20 years, that alone is disruptive enough. Then, you add to that the knowledge that this change is going to require a move, and from a purely professional and career standpoint, all of this becomes pretty daunting.

But the toughest thing, the really tragic thing, was Tracey, my wife. She was an amazing person and fighter. She was detected with breast cancer in 2007. And she beat it. She had a single mastectomy, had chemo, and then radiation.

We kind of thought, well, there's no guarantees in life, but we thought she was okay. Things were going to be okay. But then in November of 2009, she started having some headaches that were a little out of the norm, so she went back to see her oncologist and it turned out that the cancer had come back and metastasized and moved into other places like her brain, and a little piece on her lung... and a little piece on her back.

We knew at the time that was probably not good news, and particularly with breast cancer, because its so lethal.

But the hope was that because she was such a champ and a fighter that we'd get at least a few more years, although she and I were agreed that we never wanted her to go through a horrible time, or have a horrible quality of life.

But things didn't work out and she passed away on Oct. 14. A very young woman. She was only 51. The saddest thing of course is at the time she passed away, she had a seven-year old son. Little boys are not supposed to lose their mommies that young.

So yes, it's been an extraordinarily diffcult period.

I lost the love of my life and the mother of my child. But, I also recognized that we had a lot of great years together.

PBB: Where did you two meet?

Dave Hilfman: Tracey and I first met when I was at Continental in LA. She was a Continental flight attendant. And then she worked in HR at Continental.

So there you go -- fraternal co-mingling. Or whatever. The worst. Here you had a sales guy involved with someone in HR. And eventually we ended up in a relationship in Houston. After we were both there.

And hey, we got engaged in Paris.

PBB: You didn't.

Dave Hilfman: Oh yes. I did it right. Proposed to her on the Pont Neuf bridge in 1999. And then we had a really wonderful wedding in Maui in 2000.

PBB: And then you had Marshall.

Dave Hilfman: You know, as sad as I am, I look back at the great times we did have, and hey, yes, we were blessed with Marshall. What a lot of people don't know is that Marshall was kind of a miracle in himself because you know, we were older parents, and he was born three months early. He only weighed 2 pounds 1 oz. So he was, truly, a miracle.

So I'm thankful for all the time we had, yet of course, saddened.

PBB: When all of this was going on last year, did you ever consider walking away from Continental, United -- all of it?

Dave Hilfman: You know, talking about the merger and all, I could have retired. I could have just walked away from Continental last summer. Not gone forward. But this is the kind of person Tracey was -- she is the one who kept pushing me to do it. She knew that for me, this was something I had dreamed about. When I suggested that perhaps I retire, so that we could spend more time together she looked at me and said, "Are you crazy? This is your destiny. You've talked about what a great thing this could be, an incredible opportunity to sell a network like this. You need to do this. You can't lay here on the couch with me."

If not for her support and her kick in the pants, I could have very easily chosen to decide that it was going to be too much. I was seriously thinking about walking away.

PBB: But she let you know, in her own way, that it was okay with her for you to do what you needed to do. That she understood. And no, she didn't want you laying around the house waiting.

Dave Hilfman: Yep. She said, "This is your chance to go make a difference."

PBB: I want to share something with you. Last fall I said publicly in PBB that the interview with you had been postponed because of merger-related conflicts and such, as I did not want to go public with what I knew about Tracey. But, clearly a lot of people at Continental knew what was going on, and I had numerous people write me to let me know, thinking that I did not, about the situation.

One subscriber wrote to tell me that Tracey had passed away. He told me that he would let me know if he heard about the funeral arrangements, but then he added, "Arrangements may well be private. Otherwise, there would be at least a thousand people in Houston showing up to support Dave."

Dave Hilfman: That is so beautiful. Gosh. <pause> Tracey and I had talked about this -- as hard as those talks were -- and we had decided we weren't going to do the casket stuff -- she donated her body to science. As I have told everyone, if I get hit by a bus, that is exactly what I want to do as well. But she definitely wanted us to have a celebration. And in February, that is what we did. We had a celebration of her life in Houston.

But you know, it wasn't just me and my friends. Oh gosh no. Tracey had a lot of friends. She was beloved. She was just that way. Just all kinds of people. And you know, the real touching thing was that the room was full of people who really cared. You know what I mean? I mean, you know how it is with business. I mean, you have "business" relationships. But I'm talking about people who cared. And that in itself was really pretty amazing. We had about 300 folks at the Houstonian Hotel.

And I was determined that I was going to celebrate. I mean, I served champagne -- and I mean the good stuff. I was getting everyone drunk. And one of my brothers made a video on Tracey's life and a couple of folks spoke. It really was an experience. And you know what? Larry Kellner was there. Jeff was there. Gordon was there. It just says a lot about the company.

PBB: Sounds like a good time was had by all and that Tracey would have approved.

Dave Hilfman: Through it all, as difficult as it has been, extremely difficult, and yes, I still break down from time to time, I still take great comfort in knowing she's in a better place, and she's smiling down, probably laughing at me actually. And you know, the little guy and I, well, we are forging forward.

PBB: So, I have to ask. How are you managing with Marshall -- and the move -- and all the rest? Just the logistics of it all.

Dave Hilfman: Thankfully my sister and my brother-in-law are helping by watching over him when I can't be there. I just purchased a house in Iowa City, where they live. And they are essentially going to move into that house, the new "Hilfman Family Compound", and look after Marshall when I am not there. I'll fly over there every weekend. I have an apartment here in the city. Actually I'll probably drive it at some point. It's only about three and a half hours by car. The house in Houston has been packed. It's cleaned and is now on the market.

PBB: It sounds like you are doing pretty well. All things considered.

Dave Hilfman: You know, for all that has transpired, I can't complain. And besides if I did, it wouldn't do any good. Frankly, compared to a lot of other folks, I have it goin' pretty good. So now I have to settle in with the new routine. I do miss Houston. You know, when you've been someplace for 20 years, it's hard to just pick up and leave. You miss friends. Familiar places.

Having said that, Chicago is an amazing city. Not crazy about the weather in the winter. But the summer is spectacular. And I gotta tell you, the people here from United have been very kind. They've been wonderful to me and to Marshall when I've had him up to the office.

PBB: One last thing. Are you aware that Tracey's Facebook page is still up?

Dave Hilfman: Oh god. Yeah, I guess I knew that. I just hadn't figured out how to get in there and do something with it.

PBB: So this wasn't deliberate -- you don't want it to stay up there?

Dave Hilfman: Ah, no. We talked about a lot of things, but we never discussed that. I have no idea how to do it. Don't know her sign-in information. All of that stuff. But we need to take that stuff down. There are other ways to memorialize her. We have already done a couple of things. But yeah, I need to take care of that.

PBB: I'm sure there is a way you can get this taken care of. I'll look in Facebook the next time I'm in there. Which reminds me. You're not on Facebook and while you have a Twitter account, and you have a handful of followers, you don't tweet.

Dave Hilfman: No. I don't do Facebook. Maybe one of these days I'll tweet. Scare everyone.

Dave Hilfman: Hey, Holly, thanks for this. And thanks for asking about Tracey and the personal side. It probably helps me to talk about it. I know sometimes people are somewhat uncomfortable to ask. So candidly, this has helped.

PBB: Candidly, I think a lot of us have wondered just how you are doing it all.

Dave Hilfman: Oh....there are times. Times when I ask myself, "What have I done? Have I bitten off more than I can chew?" Being a single Dad doing this is not easy. But fortunately, Marshall seems to be acclimating very well in his new environs. My sister is great with him. Actually he's probably adjusting better to all of it than I am. But mentally, I'm hanging in there. And hey, the minute I feel I can't do it, I'll come down to Dallas and be your bag boy. And I'll do a damn good job.

PBB: Right.

Dave Hilfman: Seriously, when I get sad, I just try to think of the good things. Most of the time things are pretty good. So when I get to talk to good friends like you, that makes it better.

PBB: And you have a great sense of humor. That is all important.

Dave Hilfman: Oh hey. You're with me on that, no? Cause when you lose that, it means you're probably getting stupid about things.

PBB: Yep.

PBB: Thanks Dave. Congratulations on the new gig.

Dave Hilfman: Thanks Holly.

[Editor's note: One never knows what one is going to learn in a Lounge Lizard Interview. After I finished talking to Dave last week, I signed into Facebook and learned that if a loved one dies and leaves a Facebook page, you have three options. One, you can leave the page as is. Two, you can ask that Facebook "memorialize" the page. They take away the ability to post on the wall, etc., but it stays as is. Finally, you can have them remove the page completely. If you don't know how to get in and access the account, they will remove the page for you, after you provide them with the necessary identification.]

PlaneBusiness Banter Disclosure Notes: Holly Hegeman currently holds no positions in any stocks discussed in today's issue. PlaneBusiness.com is not currently engaged in a consulting capacity with any airline discussed in today's issue. However, we do routinely provide research and/or consulting services for airlines and/or financial firms related to the industry. Comments made in regard to individual stocks in this publication are not to be interpreted as stock recommendations.

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